It doesn’t take long to figure out that millennials have a certain affinity for legendary New York City rock venue CBGB. From the occasionally frustrating ubiquity of Ramones t-shirts, to bands like the New York Dolls experiencing a resurgence decades after they released their sophomore album, the club’s legacy is everywhere.
But, as Tommy Victor, frontman for American heavy metal veterans Prong and former sound man for the iconic club, will tell you, it’s hard to know what it was really like over at 315 Bowery, at the intersection of Bleecker Street, unless you were really there.
To get all the dirt, grime, and grunginess of what it was like waiting in line for The Dead Boys, we caught up with Tommy ahead of Prong’s forthcoming Australian tour, which kicks off at The Metro in Sydney later this month, for info and tour dates visit www.prongmusic.com.
It Really Was A Different Era
“I did the hardcore matinees from 1986 to ’90 and I also did shows during the week and that was a potpourri of a lot of different types of bands, a lot of different acts that I fail to remember and others that are famous, like Living Colour and more established acts like Joan Jett and the Tom Tom Club. I also sort of lived at the club, I was always there and other than that I was doing promo for Prong or trying to do stuff with the band.
“There was a real music scene back then, it was before the internet, bands were self-promoting. There was a real street scene. I don’t know if anybody’s been to New York on the Lower East Side, it’s changed considerably now. You have to be sort of a trust fund baby to live there, but it was grungy, drugs and drinking and craziness, homeless people. It was down and dirty. Different times, different period, it was real, not something manufactured by record companies and et cetera.”
It Wasn’t Just About Punk
“I was there before that, too, because I grew up in New York City, so my first show was there. It was The Dead Boys and The Damned, so that’s how far back I go in terms of seeing shows there. I would see The Ramones there, I’d be waiting on line. I’d get out of school and get on a train and wait on line to go see all the shows. I’m hardwired into that whole scene. I got into metal later.
“We sort of came out of like a post-punk scene, which includes goth music and groups like Killing Joke and The Stranglers and when thrash and hardcore starting melding together is when Prong sort of incorporated that into second generation British punk bands like Discharge. It sort of melded together. Everything was down there, there was a lot of clubs to play on the Lower East Side and all over Manhattan and the outer boroughs and Jersey and Connecticut. The scene was big.”
We’re In The Middle Of A CBGB “Renaissance”
“When we became a national act, we didn’t go back there. I mean, we were playing other venues and we got on major tours and I moved out of there so I sort of lost contact with the whole scene there. By the time Prong started getting popular and going all over the place to play, the club was sort of dying out a little bit, I thought.
“They had a resurgence later, but it was almost becoming like a tourist attraction, or a tourist trap, really. I didn’t really take it seriously that much. Now, there’s like a renaissance and people wanna know about it, but there was a period where there was no scene around it, it was more or less curiosity seekers that would drop by to see where Blondie came from and the Ramones.”
Original Music Was Everything
“I mentioned earlier that I’m hardwired [into the scene] and it’s not purposeful, it’s part of my makeup. If I come up with riffs and I don’t know if I genuinely come up with them, it just comes up through the archives and it flows through me. But it’s all generated from all the years of doing Prong and automatically knowing what Prong is and where it comes from.
“It’s instantaneous in some weird way. I mean, in terms of CB’s, it was the time, the atmosphere, and climate of music. But I try to stay current, too. I don’t ignore what’s out there, it just keeps going and I’m intrigued by newer stuff as well and that’s part of the makeup too. We wanted to hear new stuff, we weren’t just addicted to classic rock. That was the whole point, being creative, not just being in a cover band.
“There was the suburban cover scene, I don’t know if you have that in Australia, but I’m sure you know some guys who are stilling playing in a Led Zeppelin cover band and they never go on beyond that. That whole movement of clubs having original music was a statement against that. It all came to writing songs and expecting real feelings. SoHo and the Lower East Side was definitely an artist community, there was art everywhere down there and music was a part of that.”
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It Wasn’t Just About The Music, It Was About Sticking It To The Hippies, Too
“It was a post-hippie thing, too. Essentially, originally the place was where the Hell’s Angels hung out and the owner, Hilly Kristal, was more concerned with bluegrass music – Country Bluegrass and Blues was the thing. The punk scene started coming out… I mean, I used to go to other clubs, too. I went to Max’s Kansas City, the Brooklyn Zoo in Brooklyn. There was a lot of different places.
“The classic rock format that was everywhere, punk was a backlash against the Joan Baez’s and the Judy Collins’, that whole scene. It just seemed to be far apart from what was going on in an urban scenario. But, I mean, where I grew up, too, which was literally seven miles from Times Square, I’d be battling Grateful Dead-heads and people who were into disco music and running from them because I had a Lou Reed shirt on or something.
“That was part of the whole thing too. We were misfits wherever we were and we ended up getting into bands and finally doing what we wanted to do.”
Owner Hilly Kristal Was King
“It was [Hilly’s] place, he was there all the time. The place was run old-school. It was a cash business. Money in a bag. No credit cards. Earlier on, you wouldn’t be I.D.’d going in there. Like I said, I was going in there at 14, 15 years old and drinking at the bar there.
“It was a different time, with the influx of corporate America finally getting its grips on the Lower East Side and Manhattan, now it’s just like everywhere else. If you don’t have I.D. and you’re not 21, you’re not allowed on the premises.
“It had a lot to do with the youth movement, too. At that time, the drinking age was 17 and whether you were carded or not was another story. It was definitely liberal. He came from a Woodstock type of era, so it was countercultural.
“They used guys like that to make a lot of money, but he was the real deal. He was interested in new bands and getting people signed to labels. That was his main concern. Having a forum for people to play, who were playing original music, not just KISS covers or whatever.”
…And He Lived With The Most Notorious Bikie Gang In The Country
“He was very intimidating. Unlike how he’s been portrayed in films, he was a tough guy. He was a tough dude. I had my problems with him, just like any other boss. And he was definitely the boss. There was a lot of crazy things going on inside the inner sanctums of the club. He had a son that was sort of just hanging out there not doing much and then the next wife owned the liquor license of the club. So, there was a lot of drama in the place.
“Y’know, Hilly lived with the Hell’s Angels, who had their headquarters around the corner, pretty much owned the whole block of 3rd Street… now it’s all high-rent down there. But at that time, it was a scary place, in a lot of ways, and it was exciting.
“As you get older, you start getting more fearful. I can’t believe some of the instances I was in, working down there on the Bowery of Lower East Side Manhattan, it feels like a scary adventure, but it’s part of the whole thing.”
New York Was Really, Really Different Back Then
“It wasn’t just something we popped online and tried to create some affinity for ourselves and make ourselves feel we were a part of. I lived down there, I lived on Stanton and Bowery, it was Hell, but it’s just what we wanted to do back then.
“Kids today, it’s funny because I have some young guys working with Prong and people I know, they go out and they’re looking for the convenient chains that they’re familiar with. It’s mind-boggling to me and my generation.
“The thought of going into a McDonald’s was like, ‘What are you kidding me?’ We’d rather pick out of a garbage can than walk into a McDonald’s. Things are changing again, but it’s different time, different era. It was really inexpensive to live down there, too. So, somebody like me, right out of high school, was able to sign a lease and get an apartment on the Lower East Side, that’s inconceivable these days unless you’re rich.”
If You Asked, You Received
“I knew people that worked there. I knew Carol, the booking agent, and while I was floating around bands before Prong, rather unsuccessful, I went into an audio program at NYU and was working a regular job as a bike messenger and was going to school and needed an internship there, and that was the first place I went and asked. Ironically, as things go, there was a position available.”
The CBGB Film Sucked
“It was terrible. It was completely unrealistic. The acting was retarded. It had nothing to do with reality. It was completely nothing like it really was. I mean, they covered a different time, earlier than when I was working there, but they got it all wrong. It’s comical. Absolutely ridiculous. Absurd.”
But The Filmmakers Had The Odds Stacked Against Them
“I don’t think [a film that got it right] would be popular. I think people would misunderstand it. It’s an era where a dark hedonism was a priority in people’s lives and that doesn’t really exist anymore, which I think is good. I think there’s been a lot of progress with people being more concerned with their health and spirituality these days than back then.
“In those days, it was cool to be a junkie. A lot of early punk times revolved around that. That type of rebellion against society, the ultimate rebellion is trying to kill yourself with drugs. I think people have a problem with the glorification of that, amongst other things.
“I mean, there have been films that conquer that subject, but trying to mix that in with the old bands and trying to have a fair representation going on is difficult without turning off a lot of people at the same time.”
The End Of An Era Isn’t All Bad
“Inevitably, if you survive, you come to the realization that all that [‘cool to be a junkie’] stuff was a fad, really, and there’s more to life than those old statements that you thought were so important earlier on. There’s important aspects of it, but there has to be balance in your life, you have to move on, you keep walking in life, you don’t just stay there.”
Prong Australian Tour 2014
Wednesday, 19th November 2014 – The Metro, Sydney – NSW
Tix: www.ticketek.com.au
with special guests SEGRESSION (Sydney only)
Thursday, 20th November 2014 – The Hi-Fi, Brisbane – QLD
Tix: www.oztix.com.au
Friday, 21st November 2014 – The Hi-Fi, Melbourne – VIC
Tix: www.oztix.com.au
Saturday, 22nd November 2014 – ‘Metal Fiesta’ The Basement, Canberra – ACT
Tix: www.oztix.com.au
